Ministering Angels

Tuesday, August 02, 2005

DC Singles! Is This You?

By Sarita

25comments

25 Comments

at 8/02/2005 12:21 PM  Anonymous said...

How do you know the "reporters went out of their way" to "take quotes out of context?"

The sister in question sounds exactly like my roommates and me late at night on a weekend, doing laundry and trying to figure out this single LDS thing.

I think it's not only DC singles--it's a lot of singles. Maybe when you're 33+ you'll understand what it's all about. Until then--it's very likely she was quoted 10000% correctly.

 

at 8/02/2005 2:12 PM  cat said...

I'm with anon and melinda...I just find her to be very honest. I'm not in the 31 or 33+ age bracket yet, but will be soon enough, and I completely identify with her. It is hard to be single and not 25 anymore in this church, and it's hard when you are more liberal.

That's a big reason that I time my trips back to see my parents such that I don't have to go to thier ward...it's all intrusive and condescending questions and pats on the head.

 

at 8/02/2005 4:55 PM  Anonymous said...

I thought she was insufferable, honestly. It's hard to pinpoint what exactly made it so maddening to me. There was the cursing, obviously, which there's no excuse for. But she just seemed to be, I don't know, trying so hard. It doesn't take personal strength to tell an indie paper that you want to have sex and that you resent other people's happiness. She wants to be counter-culture, but really she's playing into exactly what the majority of people want to hear. It's sad, really.

 

at 8/02/2005 5:07 PM  Yeechang Lee said...

I thought the article was great. I'm a single guy, and so yes, the circumstances are different for us.

But I thought the City Paper piece was a very fair (no snide insinuations of the type that are so, so common in media articles on the church, its teachings, and culture) piece about a sister that feels frustrated in many ways but is also at the same time very intent on continuing on the right path. Were I the sister I wouldn't have used the obscenities, but otherwise I don't think I could have asked for a better article about single female life in the church.

 

at 8/02/2005 6:10 PM  Anonymous said...

I liked the article, actually. And I could feel for this woman, because she expressed so clearly what so many other women are thinking, although not necessarily saying. (Okay, minus the language -- that's not really representative.) I do wish the reporter had talked to a few more people, because even though I suspect Janna Taylor said what most people feel, it's just good reporting to get a broader cross section. But speaking of good reporting, the writer got all the details and definitions and explanations right (and there were a lot of them), and that's pretty rare. I certainly couldn't argue with anything in there. On the whole, as I said, I thought it was quite good.

 

at 8/02/2005 6:11 PM  Anonymous said...

Yeechang Lee -- do I remember you from the Manhattan singles ward?

 

at 8/02/2005 6:42 PM  Yeechang Lee said...

Heather, there aren't many (OK, just one) of us around. But which one of the many, many Heathers I've known are you? Drop me a line.

 

at 8/02/2005 9:11 PM  Anonymous said...

I made comments over at Nauvoo having not read the article. I was responding to other people's comments and the brief quotes there, which I do not think I even read in full. I do not want to read the article as I have struggled too much with these things on my own in the last several months and do not want to read an article that will reinforce my negative thought patterns that I am trying to overcome. I do not know why it is harder than it used to be for me to be single, but is. I appreciate much of the strength that I get at this blog. Something I said at Nauvoo that I meant from my personal experience not having read the article is that it is easy to be deceived. We need to really know where we stand and stand on solid ground or it can be so easy to be compromised.

 

at 8/02/2005 10:14 PM  Sarita said...

The specific "taking quotes out of context" I was referring to were those from Parley Parker. He sent an email around his ward's list serv after the article came out, explaining that the article published only the first part of a long quote in which he said that, while he was initially frustrated with being booted to a family ward, he eventually has found it to be a great experience and it has strengthened his testimony that the decision was inspired.

I have no evidence to believe Janna Taylor was similarly misquoted. Like anonymous II, though, I'm annoyed by her four-letter word use. Also, I have never had lessons about "don't touch the penis." She says she's had several.

I do object to the reporter calling Single's Ward "a 2002 satire." Satire? Please. It wasn't nearly smart enough to be a satire of anything.

I am very impressed at the reporter's attention to detail, especially on debunking the alleged Brigham Young "menace to society" quote.

I love this quote, though, from Rachel Morrissey: “You’re a leftover, and [church leaders] don’t know why. So you end up with a different kind of pressure, from both sides, to be flawless. You have to be thin and pretty and smart, and you’re not allowed to be sad that you’re not with someone, because that makes you feel like you messed up, but you’re not allowed to be happy about not being with someone, either, because that’s wrong. It’s a hard church to be single in.”

 

at 8/02/2005 11:05 PM  Anonymous said...

I think one of the problems with being single in this church is that eventually (most) singles end up lying to themselves, mostly out of a need to appear more holy, less carnal, etc.

This article speaks profoundly of the quiet struggles that can't readily be shared in a church setting.

I've had "chastity lessons" twice a year in singles wards for the past 15+ years, and yes, some were as direct as "don't touch the penis." I have no reason to doubt her experience, just as I have none to doubt the experience of those who have a more sanitized/YW-type lesson once every five years.

The point as I see it is not to nit pick with wide-eyed incredulity and shock that Mormon single women can even think about sex with longing or resent married women or feel the need to be perfect all the time.

Married women have the wives of prophets, apostles, GAs, bishops, stake presidents, etc. to look up to. Strong single women in the church are glaringly absent, and even the few examples there are (Mary Ellen Edmunds, Sheri Dew) seem superhuman.

I found Janna Taylor's remarks real and refreshing.

 

at 8/03/2005 12:56 AM  Anonymous said...

Yipee! And for the last 6 years I've been thinking that, via church policy, I was a menace to society. It's funny that I had to learn that from a non-LDS source.

As for being booted to a family ward, for me, it's been an unpleasant experience. Oh, I could have cheated and gone to a ward that didn't follow that particular rule very well, like a friend of mine who got married a year or two after she theoretically was too old, but I digress. I've been to singles activities in my family ward (which we have every-other month) where I'm the only guy and everyone has at least a good 20 years on me. I often skip out before Elders Quorum because I just want to strangle that new guy who just got off his mission and will be attending the ward regularly in a couple weeks, after his wedding (congratulations and welcomes abound from the Quorum at this point). As ironic as it sounds, Utah county is a lousy place to be single (guy or gal) and 30-something. And I think the experiences of both sexes in this situation are more similar than most people think. I completely understand Janna's attitude. I wouldn't use the 4-letter words she used (although I've probably thought them once or twice), but I've felt the anger and resentment. The trick, I guess, is to not hold onto it any longer than you "have" to (whatever that means).

 

at 8/03/2005 1:54 PM  Anonymous said...

Ok, I just have to post a comment. I can't help myself any longer. Coming from the married point of view, I can't understand why anyone would ever want to date a girl with such a bad attitude and such a chip on her shoulder. I loved the Rachel Morrisey quote, and though I am not in her shoes, it is easy to imagine myself there. (after all, at least half my relief society is either single, divorced, or widowed--some at an early age).

Whatever happened to putting your best self forward? What is wrong with a chastity lesson? We get them in family wards, BYU marrieds only wards, etc. Remember, the lessons are developed for the weakest among us. I can understand being sick of them or aggravated with them, we're all human and we get that way sometimes. But that can be true for ANY subject, and everyone struggles with different things.

As for the married women having role models to look up to, yes, we may have more, but do you think for one minute that ours don't seem superhuman, too? Or that there are plenty of struggles that marrieds don't talk about openly in church settings (think chastity lessons...)

I think the article is a really sad representation of a huge part of our church population. Most singles I know are a lot less self-focused, honestly. And to say that this is how they all feel in their hearts is selling out some of the best people I know.

 

at 8/03/2005 2:06 PM  Anonymous said...

It's how I feel.

 

at 8/03/2005 2:09 PM  Anonymous said...

By the way, I just sent in the last "anonymous" comment. My name is Lisa Chappelle, and I didn't mean to post as anonymous; it's just that I sent when I thought I was previewing.

 

at 8/03/2005 2:59 PM  cat said...

It's how I feel at times, too. At other times it doesn't bother as much.

I didn't see her as having a chip on her shoulder, just as being real and honest about being single and 'older' in a family-oriented church. Sometimes being real and honest means not being all peachy roses and miss sunshine.

And I can speak for myself and at least other single women I know when I say we know that marriage has it's own struggles. But let's face it, church is geared towards family and getting married; being perpetually single in that kind of culture/environment/what have you can get frustrating. Many (most, all?) of us aren't naive, we are just in a place where we'd like to trade in one set of struggles for another, especially considering there'd be a partner involved.

Letting those frustrations be known and giving voice to how we can feel does not mean we are always totally focused on ourselves. That is just reflective of the fact that we don't issues with spouses or children to be honest about.

(Leaving the whole issue of singledom as a time when it is easier to be self-centered aside.)

 

at 8/03/2005 4:43 PM  Anonymous said...

Sorry I wasn't too clear, 1:54 pm anonymous (I'm 8/02 11:05pm anonymous btw. Nice to meetya).

When I say that marrieds in the church have role models, I mean that this is the norm. It's even becoming the norm for divorced women to be in the spotlight, at least in the "world."

But it's patently ABnormal for a healthy woman (who wants to be married, especially because of her religion) in her 30s to be perennially single and happy about it, not because she's "self-focused", but because of BIOLOGY, PSYCHOLOGY, and plain old common sense.

The TWO LDS single role models I mentioned earlier, between them, are president of a successful book company, have been on about 10 missions, written more than a dozen books, etc. The role models married LDS women have to look up to "support their husbands", wear flannel dresses with lace collars and cry when they bear their testimonies. Only one of these is hard to live up to, and it's not the wife of Elder/President So and So.

There are very few 30, 40, 50+ year olds who resign themselves to celibacy but somehow many Mormons all over the world do just that, some more successfully than others.

Married people--of all people--should know that biologically speaking, abstinence can make one very, very grumpy. So give this girl (and other singles who are not vocal enough to echo her sentiments) a break, why doncha????????

 

at 8/03/2005 5:24 PM  Anonymous said...

I can acknowledge that that is how you feel. Personally, I just see it as unproductive and self-sabotaging. Call me flannel-dressed crying mormon if you want. What is the point of arguing over whose trials are the hardest?

 

at 8/03/2005 5:37 PM  Anonymous said...

So what would be more productive? More repression? More praying? More fasting? More therapy?

I thought this WAS the point of both the article and this blog post--finding HELPFUL solutions and making situations known and even acceptable.

The whole point is that many 30+ singles have been told all our lives to just keep praying and smiling and eventually we'll get married. But life is not like that for everyone. And the few for whom it's not a reality are consistently told to put up and shut up by people who have NO IDEA what it's like to be in these shoes.

 

at 8/04/2005 1:22 AM  Anonymous said...

Was the post deleted over at Nauvoo? Because that link that Melinda posted isn't live and I can't find reference to it over there.

 

at 8/04/2005 1:42 AM  Dirk said...

It looks like it was deleted.

 

at 8/06/2005 1:29 AM  Anonymous said...

I was just listening to a talk by Elder Holland from a few years back, and it was one of the most touching talks regarding someone having the responsibility to give counsel to those whose situation he's never been in. It's from a BYU Devotional, so it's pretty long, but I highly recommend it. http://speeches.byu.edu/htmlfiles/Holland_Jeffrey_03_1997.html.

I think this is the key--we are all followers of Christ, no matter our situation. He says:

It is with some apostolic sorrow that I acknowledge I have never known what it is like not to have a date when everyone else had one, nor to be painfully shy, nor to be chosen last for basketball, nor to be truly poor, nor to face the memories and emotions of a broken home--nor any one of a hundred other things I know many in this audience have had to contend with in the past or are contending with right now. In acknowledging that, I make an appeal for us to reach beyond our own contentment, to move out of our own comfort and companion zone, to reach those who may not always be so easy to reach.

If we do less, what distinguishes us from the biblical publican? I might not have been able to heal all the wounds of those I met in my young adult years--your years--but I can't help think that if I had tried even harder to be more of a healer, more of a helper, a little less focused on myself, and a little more centered on others, some days in the lives of those God placed in my path would have been much better. "I have called you friends," the Savior said in one of his highest compliments to his disciples (John 15:15). Therefore, "love one another, as I have loved you" (verse 12). That harvest is great and the laborers are few.

A great talk. Really gets me thinking along lines of "what can I do?" rather than "wo is me." And that's good, given that Sunday is my 31st birthday. :)

 

at 8/06/2005 1:34 AM  Anonymous said...

Sorry, the address got cut off. It's http://speeches.byu.edu/htmlfiles/
Holland_Jeffrey_03_1997.html

You'll have to cut and paste, then take out the space. Title of the talk is "Come Unto Me," and it's from 1997.

It's the same talk in which he says (and this cuts me to the core--do I really follow the Savior's commandment and let him give me peace?):

Consider, for example, the Savior's benediction upon his disciples even as he moved toward the pain and agony of Gethsemane and Calvary. On that very night, the night of the greatest suffering the world has ever known or ever will know, he said, "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. . . . Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid" (John 14:27).

I submit to you that may be one of the Savior's commandments that is, even in the hearts of otherwise faithful Latter-day Saints, almost universally disobeyed; and yet I wonder whether our resistance to this invitation could be any more grievous to the Lord's merciful heart. I can tell you this as a parent: As concerned as I would be if somewhere in their lives one of my children were seriously troubled or unhappy or disobedient, nevertheless I would be infinitely more devastated if I felt that at such a time that child could not trust me to help, or should feel his or her interest were unimportant to me or unsafe in my care. In that same spirit, I am convinced that none of us can appreciate how deeply it wounds the loving heart of the Savior of the world when he finds that his people do not feel confident in his care or secure in his hands or trust in his commandments.

 

at 8/06/2005 3:36 AM  Sarita said...

Stacer,

Thanks so much for those quotes. I want those thoughts to become part of me.

 

at 9/11/2005 4:10 AM  Anonymous said...

I am nearing the 30 mark and am feeling lonely.

I converted at 26, so I wasn't allowed to go on a mission. Single women here in my town do not want to date "no mission" men. It is a small town so the number of single Mormon women is about 40. I am never moving from my hometown. I was born here and I will die here.

Before I joined the church I used to live with my girlfriend and we slept together. Often times when I am alone I miss how nice it was to sleep side by side and I could hear her soft little breathes while she slept and I could think about things so clearly. Now I sleep alone and am lonely, with no prospects for marrying.

My testimony is on it's deathbed, there are many women I could marry, it's just they are not Mormon. When my testimony dies chance are I will go out and marry a nonmormon woman and have a small family. I really wish I could have found a place in this church, but I guess being a part of the LDS Church wasn't in the cards for me.

 

at 11/24/2005 7:43 AM  Anonymous said...

Hi there Blogger, I had been out looking for some new information on romance when I found your site and DC Singles! Is This You?. Though not just what I was searching for, it drew my attention. An interesting post and I thank you for it.

 

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