Ministering Angels

Wednesday, June 22, 2005

"Okay, we're going out. Its a date, its a scam. Whatever, whatever" John Cusak as Lloyd Dobler

By Sarita

LLOYD: I'm gonna take Diane Court out again.
COREY: Well thats unlikely.
LLOYD: Is the movies a good second date, you know? As a date?
COREY: Well you never had a first date.
LLOYD: Yes we did. I sat across from her at a mall. We ate together. We ate. That's eating. Sharing an important physical event.
COREY: That's not even a scam.
LLOYD: What's a scam?
COREY: Going out as friends.
DC: No its not. Scam is lusting.
LLOYD & COREY: Then what's a date?

DC: Date is a prearrangement. With a possibility for love.
COREY: Then what's love?

Name that movie and we will be friends for life. Possibly. But it illustrates two very important points before I get started here: 1) That there is a difference between 'a date' and other semi related activities, and 2) that despite whatever might be conveyed in the lines below, I feel for the nervous and painful responsibility of being the asker outer.

The following is an excerpt from a recent discussion I had with a longtime married man. It stemmed from Elder Oak's CES Fireside address last month and his very specific mention of the necessary change in the dating patterns of the LDS single.

"Don't tell me that men and women are equally responsible for initiating courtship. Have you ever been hunting? So tell me, when have you seen the doe nosing around the buck? It's always the other way around. It's nature!"

While I don't negate that it is perfectly okay for women to ask men out, (don't expect to see me in that role anytime soon. I blame it on my old-fashioned values, but really I am just flirtaciously challenged) I do presume that generally it lies within the man's role. I know, *cringe*. I don't deny that I accept the male gender as the ideal provider and such. Not at all implying that I can't take care of myself, but I wouldn't turn down good help. After all good help is so hard to find nowadays.

I understand that some of us are more aggressive than others, and ideally we would all pair up accordingly and balance each other out. However.....I do find some merit in Elder Oak's admonishment to the single men that they need to be asking women out on dates. In the same above referenced conversation my sister noted that her husband had been adamant when he asked her out, that they were going out on a DATE. Very John Cusak-esque. My bro-in-law abhorred the thought that nobody had the guts to call it what it was ( I know, major generalizations here, but hang with me). My sister on the other hand, a modest and brilliant model attending BYU after a stint working in France and Germany, found it refreshing to find a guy that had the *you know whats* to ask her out for real. Perhaps she was spoiled being a tall blonde prancing around these European men unabashedly offering catcalls and dates in any variety of languages. She states that she saw in him at first a slightly goofy man who would be a good husband and father, a provider who wasn't afraid to go after what he wanted in life. And he is.

So while I realize that I can't sit back and wait for that man to come to my rescue, I would like to go out on a date once in while and have great respect for the guys that actually do date. Quite the contrast to younger years when I find the frequent daters cocky and need I mention "players". Poor souls, they just can't win.

Am I alone is this desire to be swept off my feet while reserving the freedom to be as independent as I want at any given moment? I feel I am such a contradiction at times. Still I have learned to embrace it while attempting to spare the rest of society the brunt of my contradictory sprees.

In review, going back to the dialouge above: a 'date' requires prearrangment and is personified by the possibilty of love. Which can be preceded by friendship and a roaring good time, and somtimes end there. So fear not potentional date initiators.

And please tell me I am not a completely lost cause and some poor soul will have the guts to put of with me for all eternity if not one evening. I mean really, I am a moderately intellegent RM with a moderately good sense of humor and dare I say moderately attractive? Most people don't cringe upon meeting me. Maybe it's this plague I've been caring around.

16comments

16 Comments

at 6/22/2005 7:40 PM  Stephen said...

Am I alone is this desire to be swept off my feet while reserving the freedom to be as independent as I want at any given moment?

No. It used to drive me crazy when I was dating. Women who wanted dominating approaches, except when they didn't.

You are more than normal.

 

at 6/22/2005 7:51 PM  Jason King said...

Really your affirming the paradox within yourself, which is why understanding women is so difficult. It's not necessarily that they are complex as they are a walking contradiction.

"I want a bad boy who will treat me well". "I want a man with passion and a drive that will let me tell him what to do." "I want mystery, but I can't stand secrets", to name a few.

I think your post is another case in point: Am I alone is this desire to be swept off my feet while reserving the freedom to be as independent as I want at any given moment?

You are not alone, and that is the disturbing part.

 

at 6/22/2005 7:52 PM  Dirk said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 

at 6/22/2005 7:54 PM  Dirk said...

"Say Anything" is the title of the movie. I'd like to claim familiarity with it off the top of my head but honesty requires me to admit I used imdb.com

 

at 6/22/2005 9:58 PM  Anonymous said...

I have never read your blog before, just came through a link at FMH, but I knew that movie right from the first sentence. I love that movie!

 

at 6/22/2005 10:24 PM  Arwyn said...

Being swept off one's feet while reserving the freedom to be independent isn't necessarily a paradox; it can also be the beginning of an adult relationship which includes 1) a high level of attraction to an attractive fellow, and 2) a mature interaction between two independent adults.

The problem is when you expect the boy to be utterly committed while still asking for complete independence. It doesn't work that way when a guy wants to be independent but the girl wants to have commitment, and it doesn't work the other way around.

The key is to find a guy who's got a personality that sweeps you off your feet but built around a core of general respect.

 

at 6/23/2005 10:15 AM  Anonymous said...

It is natural for women and maybe even men to be in love with being in love. The desire to be that much a source of affection from another that we have reciprocal feelings for is a beutiful things. Yes, we want to be swept off our feet but that does not mean we want to be swallowed up in the relationship. I think a huge problem some women have is seeking to much of their identity from their husband either through his occupation or other status factors. I think everybody needs to have a strong identity as an individual so that they are not lost in a relationship. In fact, a lot of people who have no sense of who they are tend to be prone to bouncing from one bad relationship to the next. These people have a fear of being alone. The controversial psychological term for such people is border-line disorder. Do a google search for more information. For the record, I have a strong sense of self and have even had my Stake President compliment me on such. I think the healthy relationship that we should seek is one where we will be cherished. Our opinions will be valued. We may have to put some of our interests in the back seat at times, which is fine as a person cannot always have it all. Yet, even if we are stay at home moms, we need to have outlets to just be us and not mommy or wife. Maybe this is a lot broader than what you are talking about. Being swept off the feet while still reserving the right to be indepent is mutually inclusive in my book as they both involve treating you good. You are not simply an extention of the relationship. President Hinckley who is someone who I think men would do well to emulate believed strongly in giving his dearly departed wife wings in this life to be independent and be able to make decisions.

 

at 6/23/2005 10:58 AM  Sarita said...

Glad to learn that I'm normal, but wait, I also want to be unique. Dang you all for calling me normal! :)

 

at 6/23/2005 12:15 PM  Anonymous said...

Sarita, as time goes on, I am sure that we will see more of your uniqueness shinging through. My freshman composition teacher in college repeated on a few occassions that I was unique. I was never quite sure what she meant by that or whether it was a compliment. In the near future, I think that I am going to write something in my public journal at ldscity.com about identity and the quest for being unique while still belonging. I think about this so much that I am intimidated to actually right it up as I do not think I will do the subject the justice that I hope for. Well, I go by a lot of identities on different sites but there I am Olivia86. Well, I think we all want to belong while being unique. The great quest to be "cool" to borrow a 50's!

 

at 6/24/2005 3:40 AM  Jenna said...

Wow, you somehow described the exact conversation that my roomate and I had 10 minutes ago. I haven't been asked out in over a year. A date is all I want, I am just not sure when I am going to get it.

 

at 6/24/2005 10:53 AM  Sarita said...

I'm proabably averaging about once every six months. And I can count on less than one hand how many times I have actually been asked out. A couple of them where actually arranged by a common friend pretending he needed a date for his the this guy for a hockey game. We all went out and I knew exactly what had happened, and was a little annoyed. Is that cold? Not the hockey game but the fact that I didnt respect him for not having the guts to say, "Hey Sarah, we're going to a game, you wanna come with?"

 

at 6/24/2005 12:41 PM  Sarita said...

And apparently Dirk is the only one who wants to be my friend. Good job Dirk, even if you did have to look it up.

 

at 6/24/2005 1:34 PM  Dirk said...

Yer welcome, though I was surprised I had to look it up, I am a fan of John Cuzak's work and thought I had seen and knew most of his movies well enough to recognize it. But I didn't and had to go looking.

 

at 6/24/2005 2:38 PM  Johnna said...

Yes, well we all want John Cusack as Lloyd Dobler but what we're getting out there is John Cusack as Rob Gordon.

 

at 6/27/2005 1:34 PM  Anonymous said...

Breaking News: A formerly confirmed bachelor of Nauvoo Forum has announced a desire to find a wife and start a family. I will not name names. He does seem like a good canidate for a decent husband and father.

 

at 6/27/2005 2:32 PM  Sarita said...

Good luck with that. Really though. What's with the change of heart?

 

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